Good to Great: Chapter 2

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Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by Klittles on Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:23 am

COMING SOON!
IT"S HERE!

It is time for our collaboration on Chapter 2. Please read the directions carefully.

1. Your responses are due by [b]Monday, November 7th @ 3 pm.
2. Each one of you will have to initiate a question (open-ended, high-order;Level 3) from Chapter 2.
3. Once a question has been asked, it cannot be asked again. (the early bird, gets the worm)
4. Everyone has to respond to at least 5 questions, which means you will have to respond 5 times. Please feel free
to build on someone else's comments.
5. No more than 2 responses to 1 question, so that everyone gets at least 1 response to his/her question
6. Please put thought into your question and your reply. The replies should not be 1 sentence with
a yes or no answer. We are looking for an in depth discussion.

**HINT**
Characteristics of a good question:
- purposeful
- clearly stated
- open-ended but with direction
- encourages higher level thinking an participation


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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by MShamburger on Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:53 pm

Here is my question:
Level 5 leadership, as defined by the author, consists of "an unwavering resolve to do whatever must be done to produce the best long-term results, no matter how difficult" combined with a "compelling modesty, shunning public adulation; never boastful." It seems to me that these two characteristics are at odds. All of the humble, modest people that I know are also extremely kind and caring. I think the "unwavering resolve" would require the level 5 leader to do some things that would go against his or her nature. How can the attributes of level 5 leadership be reconciled together into a single individual?

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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by SWallace on Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:52 pm

Here is my question:
The author discusses how an emphasis on “luck” rather than brilliant decisions came up over and over again when interviewing good-to-great executives. This emphasis on luck is part of a pattern he calls “the window and the mirror.” When comparing Level 5 leaders to comparison leaders, how do their views differ and how does this difference in views help to create a Level 5 leader?
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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by SWallace on Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:23 pm

I believe that the statement you quoted, Mark, "an unwavering resolve to do whatever must be done to produce the best long-term results, no matter how difficult" combined with a "compelling modesty, shunning public adulation; never boastful" would not necessarily require a "Level 5 leader" to go against his/her own nature. A great leader is more intrinsically motivated and does not seek out public adoration and praise, focused on what is needed to ensure the success of the company now and for his/her successors and not just what is seen "in the mirror" for his own self-gratification and public praise. Becoming a Great Leader requires some ruthless decisions, but I do not necessarily believe this would cause you to go against your own nature.
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Chapter 2

Post by CAnderson on Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:19 pm

It would seem that the levels of leadership are like a pyramid.  This is not dissimilar to the "Food Pyramid" "Bloom's Taxonomy" or other types of pyramids.  Start at the "bottom" ad build your way up.  (Start with lower level and build your way up to high-order items/questions as is the focus of our exercise).  Am I correct in saying that each level of leadership builds on the other?  In order to be a Level 5 leader, do you have to possess characteristics of Levels 1-4?  Why or why not?  Locate evidence in the chapter or support your answer through other research, general knowledge, etc..
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Good to Great Chapter 2

Post by CAnderson on Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:27 pm

Mark, I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive  I believe a leader can be kind, caring, humble, etc. and have the will and heart of a lion.  I often see this same thing in sports with certain athletes.  They are focused on the goal and will do what it takes to achieve the goal without purposefully and/or constantly seeking the spotlight.  Leaders can have many diverse traits and characteristics.
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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by MShamburger on Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:21 pm

CAnderson wrote:It would seem that the levels of leadership are like a pyramid.  This is not dissimilar to the "Food Pyramid" "Bloom's Taxonomy" or other types of pyramids.  Start at the "bottom" ad build your way up.  (Start with lower level and build your way up to high-order items/questions as is the focus of our exercise).  Am I correct in saying that each level of leadership builds on the other?  In order to be a Level 5 leader, do you have to possess characteristics of Levels 1-4?  Why or why not?  Locate evidence in the chapter or support your answer through other research, general knowledge, etc..

Carol, I am not sure if one level builds upon another, but it seems that you can acquire the levels along the way. One of the categories of people that the author writes about is those that have the potential to evolve to level 5. They have the capability but it has not been tapped into. He suggests that under the right circumstances these people could become level 5.

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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by MShamburger on Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:28 pm

SWallace wrote:Here is my question:
The author discusses how an emphasis on “luck” rather than brilliant decisions came up over and over again when interviewing good-to-great executives.  This emphasis on luck is part of a pattern he calls “the window and the mirror.”  When comparing Level 5 leaders to comparison leaders, how do their views differ and how does this difference in views help to create a Level 5 leader?

It appears that the difference between a level 5 leader and the comparison leader is how they view what could be called "luck." The comparison leaders would attribute the tough obstacles that they faced to "bad luck". At the same time, a level 5 leader might look at the same environment and see how "lucky" he was to have such a challenge. That is where the window and the mirror analogy comes in. Level 5 leaders tend to look inward whereas other, less successful leaders look outward for something on which to blame their misfortunes.

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Know Any Show Horses or Plow Horses?

Post by April.Nobles on Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:38 pm

On page 33, Cork Walgreen, CEO of Walgreen's describes the difference between he and the CEO of Circuit City. He said, "The show horse and the plow horse - he was more of a show horse, whereas I was more of a plow horse."
I can think of many instances in my career and personal life where I have worked BOTH with and for show and plow horses. My question is ...
PROVIDE AN EXAMPLE OF A TIME IN YOUR CAREER (past or present) WHERE YOU HAVE WORKED EITHER WITH OR FOR A SHOW AND PLOW HORSE. WHAT WERE THE LARGEST DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS? WHICH DID YOU PREFER WORKING WITH/FOR? WHY?
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Response to Mark's Question

Post by April.Nobles on Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:44 pm

I agree with the author that potential Level 5 leaders exist all around us, if we just know what to look for. I also believe that many people have the potential to evolve into Level 5. The author also goes on to explain that based on his research, one should begin by practicing the good-to-great disciplines we are discussing in this forum/book study. These ideas can be put into practice in lots of areas of our life, not just our careers.
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Response to Carol's Question

Post by April.Nobles on Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:52 pm

Mrs. Carol,
I believe you are correct when you say that each level of leadership builds on the other. I also believe, however, that some people are just natural-born leaders and possess the skills and knowledge to be both good and great leaders. The books talks about how several Fortune 500 company CEO's were Level 4, Effective Leaders. I am intrigued to read the reminder of the book because the author promises to explain what Level 5 leaders "do," whereas, this chapter explained what they "are."
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Response to Saundra's Question

Post by April.Nobles on Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:07 pm

The book provides multiple examples where almost every single Level 5 leader credits "luck" to their success, rather than their own leadership. I view this as looking at the positive side of things - a glass half full mentality - rather than the dwelling on the negative. The book states: "The window and the mirror do not reflect objective reality. Everyone outside the window points inside, directly at the Level 5 leader, saying, "He was the key; without his guidance and leadership, we would not have become a great company." And the Level 5 leader points right back out the window and says, "Look at all the great people and good fortune that made this possible; I'm a lucky guy."
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Response to Carol's Question

Post by Denise Scallan on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:52 am


When one considers that Level 5 leaders exhibit professional will and are "...first and foremost for the institution, not themselves", it seems logical to assume that they will ultimately exhibit the characteristics attributed to the first four levels of leadership. The author notes that the move to Level 5 does not need to be sequential, but that full development of the lower levels could possibly be filled in later. He does stress; however, that fully developed Level 5 leaders "...embody all five layers of the pyramid". Those who are lacking pertinent knowledge and/or specific work-related skills will seek assistance from other members of the institution and other sources in order to become informed and proficient. Level 5 leaders strive to become contributing team members, competent managers and effective leaders because they realize that the success of an institution depends upon every member working effectively together to achieve goals.

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Response to April

Post by Denise Scallan on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:21 am


Working with a plow horse is more fulfilling and productive than working with a show horse. I have numerous stories regarding working with both breeds, but I'll share one that happened many years ago when I was the JR. BETA sponsor at a middle school. That particular year, our club was responsible for the district BETA meet. I can't remember the number of people who were to participate, but I do remember that we had to fill the gym floor with chairs and utilize all of the bleacher space in order to accommodate the crowd. My co-sponsor and I were fortunate to have other very competent "plow horses" working with us in different areas -- quiz bowl, luncheon, development of academic tests and actual testing in several subjects, spelling bee, amateur and professional talent, decorations, setting up, etc. The evening before BETA Day, our principal came into the gym as we were preparing to leave. He looked wide-eyed at the chairs and asked, "How many people are coming tomorrow?" When we gave him the number, he responded, "We can't have that many people here!!!" (So much for encouragement, help, and concern prior to the event). The next day, he pranced around in the gym and beamed when parents and sponsors complimented him on the well organized and executed event. Give me plow horses! Smile

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Chapter 2

Post by Denise Scallan on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:33 am

Collins mentions people who have ..."the seed within..." to become a Level 5 leader. As the leader in your classroom, do you consider yourself to be a Level 5 leader? Justify a "yes" OR explain a "no".  Question

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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by Kenya.Huggins on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:42 am

The author stated that when he got cancer it gave him a revelation. He further stated that he related his future business ideas to that of eventually beating the cancer. He stated" When you get cancer of the hand, you have to know when to cut the hand off". In our profession of educating offenders who are significantly behind, what matrixes do we utilize when deciding to cut the hand off to save the whole body. Is there a point where we realize that a student just isn't going to get it or do we keep going. Explain.

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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by Kenya.Huggins on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:47 am

MShamburger wrote:Here is my question:
Level 5 leadership, as defined by the author, consists of  "an unwavering resolve to do whatever must be done to produce the best long-term results, no matter how difficult" combined with a "compelling modesty, shunning public adulation; never boastful." It seems to me that these two characteristics are at odds. All of the humble, modest people that I know are also extremely kind and caring. I think the "unwavering resolve" would require the level 5 leader to do some things that would go against his or her nature. How can the attributes of level 5 leadership be reconciled together into a single individual?
I think if anyone is willing to put a significant amount of time and heart in a situation, they will become successful. I feel is almost destined. Further utilizing these added steps only expedites the process and solidifies it.

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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by Kenya.Huggins on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:06 pm

CAnderson wrote:Mark, I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive  I believe a leader can be kind, caring, humble, etc. and have the will and heart of a lion.  I often see this same thing in sports with certain athletes.  They are focused on the goal and will do what it takes to achieve the goal without purposefully and/or constantly seeking the spotlight.  Leaders can have many diverse traits and characteristics.
I too feel that a leader can be strong, yet they have to be compassionate and empathetic. I do wonder how this paid a part when the author stated that the gentleman sold the mills. It failed to mention if this caused anyone to loose their jobs or anything. As a leader, even though your charged with making tough decisions, this is something that would have to be considered.

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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by Kenya.Huggins on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:14 pm

Denise Scallan wrote:Collins mentions people who have ..."the seed within..." to become a Level 5 leader. As the leader in your classroom, do you consider yourself to be a Level 5 leader? Justify a "yes" OR explain a "no".  Question
I feel that being a leader is the first step towards being a good teacher. If you aren't able to give directions, then you serve no purpose. In addition to attempting to get your educational point across to these individuals, you have to get their total buy in. In our unique situation, the only thing that keeps these guys going is some form of motivation. This comes from us as teachers. We have to look at our classroom as a group that we are leading to the educational promise land.

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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

Post by Kenya.Huggins on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:18 pm

April.Nobles wrote:Mrs. Carol,
I believe you are correct when you say that each level of leadership builds on the other. I also believe, however, that some people are just natural-born leaders and possess the skills and knowledge to be both good and great leaders. The books talks about how several Fortune 500 company CEO's were Level 4, Effective Leaders. I am intrigued to read the reminder of the book because the author promises to explain what Level 5 leaders "do," whereas, this chapter explained what they "are."
I too agree. I think some people got and some don't. I really don't think you can create a leader. In my everyday dealing with inmates, I recognize some that just naturally lead others. They seem to do it effortlessly. Then you have others who seem to be looking for someone to lead them. I personally feel that no how much knowledge you in part in someone, you can't give me true leadership ability.

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April

Post by MShamburger on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:56 pm

April,
Worked with plenty of plow horses. I find most teachers to be plow horses--hard working and in it for the results, not for the adulation. The few show horses that I have worked with were frustrating at best. Always looking for some way to enhance their own image rather than good results.

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Kenya

Post by MShamburger on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:59 pm

I try not to ever give up on any student, but I get where you are coming from. I think sometimes we can realize that we are not going to produce a rocket scientist, but everyone can learn and should. So I guess we "cut off the hand" of unrealistic expectations to "save the body" of realistic ones.

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Denise

Post by MShamburger on Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:07 pm

I am probably not a level 5 leader, but have some of the characteristics. I have certainly tried to grow in personal humility over the years (we could probably all use some growth there!). I usually act with calm determination. I definitely do not channel ambition to myself, just want the students and the program to succeed. I also believe that I help to create superb results in my students.

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Respose to Kenya's Question

Post by Denise Scallan on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:42 pm

This is where education differs from big businesses. When an employee is not contributing to the advancement of a company, he can be "cut off". Or when manufacturers receive defective components, they can refuse the shipment in favor of higher quality materials. We are often the last chance our students have to obtain skills that they need "out in the world". Our calling is to embrace all students and to help them achieve their highest possible educational, social, emotional, and spiritual levels. Academically, there have been many cases where I had to admit to myself that students would never achieve their diplomas. In these cases, we have to celebrate their academic advancements, however limited, and continue to utilize the holistic approach with our students so that they can grow in those areas in which success cannot be measured through data collection. We have an enormous responsibility to our students, society, and ourselves!


Last edited by Denise Scallan on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Additional thoughts)

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Response to Saundra's Question

Post by Denise Scallan on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:12 pm

Once again, we see that Level 5 leaders are plow horses who view themselves as part of a team. They give others credit and work alongside others to achieve the goals of the institution. When pressed to acknowledge their major role in the success of an endeavor, they modestly reply, "Luck."  Smith (from Kimberly-Clark) said, "I never stopped trying to become qualified for the job." Definitely not a show horse!


Last edited by Denise Scallan on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:15 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Add title)

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Re: Good to Great: Chapter 2

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